Interview with Leszek Zaleski and Dawid Troczewski

Guitar and piano duets have happened in the history of jazz music before, but it's not a very common format. Probably because it is demanding – both instruments perform quite similar functions in jazz and operate in a similar space. Did you have to put a lot of work into the arrangements not to overlap but complement each other?

Leszek Zaleski: The concert program at the Lentz Villa in Szczecin will mainly consist of pieces that we have been playing with Dawid in my quartet for many years. We tried to rearrange them in terms of our instruments so that, on the one hand, the music does not sound "empty", and on the other, that we do not get in our way. So if one instrument is in harmony, the other should not do the same. If we play in a similar register, we have to do it so that the sounds do not muffle each other. If I play a solo, Dawid is responsible for bass and harmony – and vice versa.

Nevertheless, we have changed some of the compositions that work pretty well in a quartet to make them sound more attractive in a duet. We don't always have to play, for example, full improvisation choruses traditionally. Dawid had the idea sometimes to go away from it and play the so-called "fours".

Dawid Troczewski: We wanted to talk to each other and exchange ideas; sometimes, it can even be a joint solo. Are we not getting interfering with one another? In general, I play a very dense harmony, and most of the time, I focus on it in this duo. Leszek, of course, also, but essentially the piano reproduces the melody on the guitar. Sometimes I use a second keyboard instrument – a synthesizer or a portable Hammond organ – to play bass parts that the listener might miss in a duet.

It is indeed a complex art to attract the listener's interest only in a duet from beginning to end. So you have to look for different colours and solutions.

On the other hand, in duets, you can clearly see how artists build music, which can also be attractive. And at the same time, it is a challenge for the performer because nothing can be hidden in the duo.

DT: The essential thing in duets is listening to each other. And openness – not to be closed only in your own parties, but to react to your partner. I played a bit in duets; I often performed with the accordionist Jarosław Buczkowski, so it is not new to me. But, of course, the rhythm section is easier to play. Still, it is easier to depart from the pattern in duos to surprise yourself during the concert. The section gives comfort, but sometimes it limits it a bit.

Your duo's descriptions often feature a different piano-guitar duo from Brad Mehldau and Pat Metheny. Was it actually some inspiration?

DT: Leszek is a Pat Metheny specialist! He knows all the CDs by heart, including release dates.

LZ: I'm a patologist, that's true. Well, it is known that the guitar-piano duo in the jazz world is associated with Mehldau and Metheny. And our duo can also evoke such associations. But to be honest, it is not a big inspiration for us. I have known Dawid for many years, and we played a duet (though not always in public), probably even before the recording of the Mehldau / Metheny album. And the program was later recorded on the My Songs album by my quartet, and we first had played in a duet.

DT: Even when we were studying at the Academy of Music in Wrocław, and we were showing our own pieces, we tested them with the guitar and the piano.

LZ: It was Dawid who pushed me so that I would do something with these pieces, and he spoke very favourably about them.

Personally, I was more inspired by the album of another duo: Charlie Haden / Pat Metheny Beyond the Missouri Sky. So double bass and guitar.

DT: Yes, I love this album too. A great duo album was also recorded by Jarek Śmietana and Wojciech Karolak – Phone Consultations, Hammond's organ and guitar(the album also features drums and a guest saxophone in several songs). From Pat Metheny's discography, I would also point to the album As Falls Wichita, So Falls Wichita Falls, which Pat co-produces with Lyle Mays. Mays synthesisers, which also have gorgeous timbres, play an important role here.

So we have different inspirations but keep our sound.

The more that Leszek Zaleski has announced in the interviews that he would try to move away from the connotation with Pat Metheny.

LZ: Yes. After the first album, as a guitarist, I was pretty associated with Pat. Of course, I love it, you know, but the next album will be a bit different. I am departing from the dark sound that Pat used in the 1980s. He gives it up on the latest albums and concerts; this guitar has a slightly sharper timbre. I am also moving away from a warm and round sound for a slightly clearer treble.

I know that the duo's repertoire also includes compositions by Dawid Troczewski.

DT: These are one of my oldest compositions, very contrasting with each other. One is a quiet ballad, one of the first songs I ever wrote. The second is a slightly Latino, energetic composition; I called it Suspended Song because it is based mainly on suspended chords. Playing this piece in a duet is a challenge because the bass guitar and drums are very important and keep the rhythm in check.

These songs were also included on the album The Other Sound, which had its premiere a few days ago, on May 24, recorded in a quartet with Marcin Jahr, Jarek Buczkowski and Zbigniew Wrombel.

LZ: And I will add that these compositions are beautiful.

Can you indicate your favourite moments in the compositions played by the duo? Maybe I'll start. There are a few rhythmically non-obvious, effective phrases in the subject of Night from the My Songs album, which I always wait for.

LZ: Yes, the time signature changes from 4/4 to 3/4 in this piece; the melody calms down a bit in part B, then goes back to part A (basically C). We will probably start the Szczecin concert with Night.

However, it seems to me that I do not wait for any specific moment but rather perceive the pieces as a whole, especially my own. I definitely put a lot of emphasis on harmony. When I write my songs, harmony and rhythm come easily to me; it is much more challenging to write a nice melody. When I listen to someone else's compositions and see a beautiful harmony in them, I like such a song 80%. And if someone adds a nice melody or a good solo – like Metheny, whose solos are so beautiful that sometimes I think he writes them down earlier – it's a work of art.

DT: I must say that I am surprised to hear that Leszek has a problem with lovely melodies. I have the impression that he has excellent ease of writing. I like the progressiveness of his works: they are varied, different parts appear in them, and often, their rhythm or character changes suddenly. And despite all the remarkable, sometimes complicated harmony, his melodies are effortlessly catchy.

LZ: Well, I remember writing the song Wishing. I sat down to the instrument, and bam – I had the harmony right away. And I was struggling with the melody for a month. Finally, I took the guitar in my hand, played, and recorded loops with harmony. It's much, much more difficult for me to write melodies – although you may not hear it at all.

DT: The compositions will be even more progressive on the new Leszek's album, which he is to record in July. Rhythmically and harmonically complex, formally developed, there will undoubtedly be fewer ballads. On the previous album, there was probably only one bass solo; on the new album, the participation of the rhythm section will be much more evident. Apart from the piano, I will use a broader palette of colours: a Fender piano, maybe some pads, synthesizers, and also perhaps Hammond's organs.

LZ: In two songs, there will also be a string quartet. It will surely give the music a different colour.

Then, finally, there is a question about the audience. Naturally, we like when recipients appreciate us, we know then that our work makes sense. Have you ever heard words from listeners that gave you wings?

DT: It happened to me that we received a bottle of wine from anonymous fans after a concert. Several times someone said they had tears in their eyes. Once I heard that I have the gift of touching people – it was probably the most beautiful, more important than reviews.